tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post115034460019225160..comments2023-09-28T07:23:51.376-07:00Comments on ProjectPerko: Memetic Immune ResponseCraig Perkohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-48852855171939226392012-04-13T05:35:21.191-07:002012-04-13T05:35:21.191-07:00If you have the meme for "global warming does...If you have the meme for "global warming doesn't exist", or the meme for "nobody needs help with health care" or the meme for "vaccines are evil", then people DIE.<br /><br />So there needs to be a way.Craig Perkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-26756817852162711902012-04-12T23:28:21.085-07:002012-04-12T23:28:21.085-07:00I thinks, as with genes, some memes seem to make t...I thinks, as with genes, some memes seem to make their carriers better, some seem to change them to worse, but the actual utility depends on the environment and presence/absence of other genes/memes in the pool.<br /><br />If you have meme "for heliocentrism" while everybody else has memes for geocentrism and heretic-burning, tough luck. Your brain was ill-equipped for survival (albeit with "right" memes).<br />I suspect that many of the fundamental truths (civil, economical, national, sexual, religious) that our identities are based on are in fact false - but they exist as long as they give positive net effect, and destroying all of them at once (or, even worse, just some of them, while leaving the others) could have harmful consequences.<br /><br />So identifying "wrong" memes without some kind of methodology seems like an impossible task to me.Random_Phobosishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14426831179317577197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-22344732167646131782012-04-11T23:27:39.864-07:002012-04-11T23:27:39.864-07:00Problem 1: how do we define this equilibrium. How ...Problem 1: how do we define this equilibrium. How do you know what memes are right or wrong? Every person actually does this on a daily basis and passes each set of new memes through a series of believes (in a not very efficient way).<br /><br />Problem 2: Some things may be fundamentally true as you see them now, but new information may show up any time to disprove them. I don't say that we should discard them based on what might happen, but I don't think you should mark them as "fundamentally" true. (I'll retain myself from giving examples and arguments both for and against because you asked nicely at the beginning of the post).<br /><br />Finally, memes are indeed a survival mechanism that has to do with information overload. Stanley Milgrim has done a series of experiments regarding social behavior in urban environments and the reason why people seem to respond so mechanically to events (and information) has something to do with information overload. Nice introduction into the experiments here: http://www.spring.org.uk/2012/03/how-society-works-8-revealing-psychological-insights-into-our-social-behaviour.phpLaserbeamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13751827516223896667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-77063198297313314352012-04-11T16:52:35.819-07:002012-04-11T16:52:35.819-07:00Of course "equilibrium" is itself a meme...Of course "equilibrium" is itself a meme, and thus the cycle rages at a much faster clip than any organic evolution, to the exponent of the number of communication vectors available. Hence all the jerk comments people leave on the internet. ;)Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13614962832390315553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-47903981604424167052012-04-11T13:34:04.951-07:002012-04-11T13:34:04.951-07:00Hmmm, I don't know. It would have to be dug in...Hmmm, I don't know. It would have to be dug in deeper than any other meme...Craig Perkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-67327891255044847242012-04-11T12:35:55.998-07:002012-04-11T12:35:55.998-07:00So would a memetic immune system have to take the ...So would a memetic immune system have to take the form of a meme itself?<br /><br />Maybe something along the lines of Carl Sagan's "Baloney Detection Kit"?Eric Poultonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13985606452808972095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-24715381610357239722012-04-11T11:10:20.891-07:002012-04-11T11:10:20.891-07:00There is a cost to an immune system, but it is low...There is a cost to an immune system, but it is lower than the cost of having a chronic or deadly illness. Now that our minds can spread memes as easily as our bodies have been able to spread bacteria, it is time to think about how to have an equally capable mental immune system.<br /><br />Identifying harmful memes is probably a core part of the issue, but it has to be some kind of diagnostic that can't be swayed by a meme.<br /><br />In addition, I'd like to focus on the idea that it's okay to get sick. It's okay to be infected by a meme. As long as you have an immune system, you'll fight it off and be more immune to it in the future.Craig Perkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-2007116955703531492012-04-11T11:05:14.040-07:002012-04-11T11:05:14.040-07:00If this is right, then as your pants example illus...If this is right, then as your pants example illustrates, memetic thinking isn't just an occasional disease, but a fundamental (and probably extremely useful) aspect of cognition. The best argument in favor of strongly establishes biases is probably efficiency - if I had to re-evaluate all of my beliefs and habits each day based on whatever new evidence I had, I would waste a lot of time and mental energy, and without strong beliefs and desires it would be hard to develop long-term goals. This is, of course, also nicely analogized by the bacteria example - most bacteria in your body are beneficial, and actually necessary for your ongoing survival. <br /><br />So the real task isn't generally weakening memetic thinking, but identifying harmful memes. It seems to me the best one can do is simply keep in mind that they have biases, and try to compensate for it somewhat when presented with new evidence that runs contrary to it. The better solution is probably to be much more skeptical about adopting memes in the first place, but many memes are adopted at a young age and hard to avoid.Ellipsishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13554930621825481241noreply@blogger.com