tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post114607195071493079..comments2023-09-28T07:23:51.376-07:00Comments on ProjectPerko: Episodic Overlap!Craig Perkohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146205111833757912006-04-27T23:18:00.000-07:002006-04-27T23:18:00.000-07:00My approach is kind of the inverse, and much simpl...My approach is kind of the inverse, and much simpler. Since the main play loop involves making decisions that affect the story, each narrative experience produced by the players withing the constriants of each episode becomes the player generated content, and gaining insight into the workings of the storyworld at large will evoke people to share their experiences and try to get at that common something, the metaplot. <BR/><BR/>I think your approach could definetetly be interesting, but maybe it'd be better to streamline into the gameplay with a massively multiplayer space which focuses on collaborative play, which is, in a sense, what I understand Corvus is up to.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13614962832390315553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146155620904929792006-04-27T09:33:00.000-07:002006-04-27T09:33:00.000-07:00I'll look into it. The more data, the better, I al...I'll look into it. The more data, the better, I always say.<BR/><BR/>Really, always. You can't get a word in edgewise over my "The More Data, the Better"ing.Craig Perkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146153481967630592006-04-27T08:58:00.000-07:002006-04-27T08:58:00.000-07:00I've given a thought to my second issue, the one a...I've given a thought to my second issue, the one about how content is generated, and I'd like to revise it. I recall two instances of what you're talking about that I've found. Neither are very good works, but they exist, and they have potential.<BR/><BR/>The first is <A HREF="http://www.eclipse.net/~rms/dw-fics.html" REL="nofollow">the Drunkard's Walk fanfiction squared</A>, which is fanfiction of fanfiction. None of it is exceptional, but it's inter-related in roughly the same manner as what you're talking about.<BR/><BR/>The other is <A HREF="http://www.pixelscapes.com/unrealestate/" REL="nofollow">Stefan Gagne's Unreal Estate Open House</A>, which is an open, episodic, n-author writing project that vaguely resembles fanfiction, but the source material is Stefan Gagne's original fiction. This might warrant your attention, Craig, as the system/meta-language they use for control over plotlines and characters is interesting (if somewhat trivial).<BR/><BR/>I don't considder Eyrie Productions an example of what you're talking about, because Gryphon exercises pretty much complete editorial control.<BR/><BR/>So, there are examples of this in the wild. Perhaps there will be a success story here, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146152248353198312006-04-27T08:37:00.000-07:002006-04-27T08:37:00.000-07:00It is, as you say, an absurd problem. But just bec...It is, as you say, an absurd problem. But just because that is the way it is today doesn't mean that is the way it has to be tomorrow.<BR/><BR/>I can almost see the engine in my head, the math is almost there. A powerful way of organizing and creating data. Clicking and dragging. Highlighting data you know is going to be a problem. Creating your "official line", including episodes you and your favorites have created.<BR/><BR/>Even if it doesn't improve the game industry (and I think it will), it has applications in other industries.<BR/><BR/>Corvus, I look forward to your post. In all honesty, I've been sort of ignoring your Honeycomb posts, because they have a lot of trivia about the game you're developing in them. So, I'm a blank slate. :)Craig Perkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146151231420709012006-04-27T08:20:00.000-07:002006-04-27T08:20:00.000-07:00I agree with kestrel404, you are trying to set up ...I agree with kestrel404, you are trying to set up a way to solve and integrate all fan-fiction. Inherently, there are things that are cannon (as dictated by official sanction and release) and things that are just not. By allowing everyone to create in the same (small?) universe you force some weird overlaps that will not always work out.<BR/><BR/>In existing types of fiction that mirror what you'd like to create (such as Star Trek, Star Wars, Forgotten Realms), each author typically creates their own stories within the existing cannon of the world. And each story concept has to be vetted by editors so that inconsistencies don't arise within the world. Fan-fic builds on this, but does it unedited, and therefore has a lot more material that would otherwise be non-permissible. looking a the whole universe without filters would not be possible, or even desirable. Mixing and matching is possible, but only because we can selectively edit what we don't like, in our heads, as we go.<BR/><BR/>A better idea would be to establish a world in which multiple concurrent and independent stories and characters can evolve. The author becomes responsible for the characters that they create, and the stories that they build. If they overlap, so what? This is what we see in player created NWN content. It all exists within a Forgotten Realms world. It can reference as much or as little cannon as the author wants, but anything is technically permissible. Each is an independent story, within a larger world.<BR/><BR/>The only way to port a character completely from one author to another would be to script their entire personality, so that someone else can use it without altering it beyond the initial (or subsequent) requirements. How frustrating would it be to create a character only to have someone else devalue it by creating a bad story with it? I create a character, but someone else kills him before I can use him in my meta-plot. Frustrating.Duncan Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280914228859902589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146148225653862432006-04-27T07:30:00.000-07:002006-04-27T07:30:00.000-07:00Egads. You don't like trying to solve the easy pr...Egads. You don't like trying to solve the easy problems, do you? I don't think it would work, for two reasons:<BR/>First, you would need to choose either taking on all the work yourself (a parser that takes in dialogue and spits out relationship charts), or leave it on the heads of the developers (they're responsible for said relationship charts). Either way, you lose. The parser would need to handle everything, and we don't have the tools for anything approaching that today. And the task of making those charts for every possible permutation is too onerous for any reasonably sized episodic content. It's lose-lose, and unless you figure out a way around this trap, I can't see it working.<BR/><BR/>The second reason is that episodic content of this type is almost never generated like you're talking about. There's fiction, written serially by one author. There's fiction written serially by numerous authors (Star Trek is a good example). There's fan fiction and group ficion that's written in parallel by numerous authors - and that's as close as you're going to get to what you're talking about. And when you get the fan fiction or group fiction (player generated content, for all intents and purposes), you're not expecting the original author's episodic content to adhere to the fanfiction author's additions. You WANT to get the material in the method that the original author intended, not filtered through N different people's perceptions of how things should have gone. Too many chefs spoil the broth, as the saying goes.<BR/><BR/>Not saying that it's impossible to get it to work in the end, but it would be tough, and it wouldn't be better than what we have now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146107171585348632006-04-26T20:06:00.000-07:002006-04-26T20:06:00.000-07:00Duncan: I mean that sharing one world between an u...Duncan: I mean that sharing <I>one world</I> between an unlimited number of people doesn't normally work.<BR/><BR/>I should have made clear: I mean <I>intertwined</I> episodes. All in the same universe and with the capability to reference each other.Craig Perkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13173752470581218239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11758224.post-1146087974760998922006-04-26T14:46:00.000-07:002006-04-26T14:46:00.000-07:00Wait... Episodic content and Player Generated cont...Wait... Episodic content and Player Generated content don't mix well? How do you figure?<BR/><BR/>Most extensive player generated plot-based content is released in episode-sized bites to the comminuty. Look at Neverwinter Nights (as the prime example). There are several player generated story-worlds that have been released an episode at a time. Even the persistent worlds (a player devised extension of the game engine) are frequently updated with new content. <BR/><BR/>Rarely is user generated content designed all at once, unless it is designed small.Duncan Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13280914228859902589noreply@blogger.com